Probation for trying to kill the competition?

[Christopher]

NASCAR handed down its ruling yesterday on Carl Edwards' retaliatory wreck of Brad Keselowski during the Kobalt Tools 500 at Atlanta Motor Speedway last Sunday. The Roush Fenway Racing team driver will be subjected to a three-race probation that covers the Food City 500 at Bristol Motor Speedway on March 21, the Goody's Fast Pain Relief 500 at Martinsville Speedway on March 28 and the Subway Fresh Fit 600 at Phoenix International Raceway on April 10.

more at http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/10/carl-edwards-gets-three-race-probation-for-intentional-wreck/

I've been out of touch for the past week or so, but I saw this story and am astonished. Maybe one of you NASCAR fans can clue me in, but isn't probation for trying to kill your competitor a little light?

[arm53]

Maybe one of you NASCAR fans can clue me in, but isn't probation for trying to kill your competitor a little light?

I am not a race fan , but will find the decision interesting.

[twila]

Disgusting decision at best. We saw the wreck and when he hit that car it went airborne and not just a little bit airborne; it flew up big time and all because of anger. The car or pieces of it could easily gone into the stands injuring or killing spectators and the driver as well. At the very least he should be suspended from racing the next three races not merely closely monitored. Nascar should suspend him for the rest of the season IMO, or better yet kick him out forever.
I'm really surprised. :confused:

[DrScreed]

I've been out of touch for the past week or so, but I saw this story and am astonished. Maybe one of you NASCAR fans can clue me in, but isn't probation for trying to kill your competitor a little light?


Well, since they told the racers they wanted, as Judge Mills Lane says, "Lets get it on!"


http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/nascar-drivers-get-green-light-be-more-aggressive


By Dustin Long (http://hamptonroads.com/2007/10/dustin-long)
The Virginian-Pilot
© January 22, 2010
CONCORD, N.C.
Describing NASCAR as "a contact sport," chairman Brian France said Thursday that he wants to see drivers "mixing it up" more this season.
Whether it's a gimmick for a series that has seen declining TV ratings or a serious pledge to fans, France's message to drivers is clear: He wants more of the type of racing that fans saw late last season between Brad Keselowski and Denny Hamlin and between Tony Stewart and Juan Pablo Montoya.
"We want to see the emotion of the world's best drivers just as much as everybody else does, and that is the goal for 2010 and beyond," France said.
NASCAR is moving to encourage more aggressive driving, but with just a few rule changes meant to improve racing. As announced...










Seems like it is hard to say this and then "punish" a driver for doing what you said was okay???

[DLD]

This incident was no different than retaliation in baseball. Some guy slams multiple home runs off a pitcher, or styles after one, he's gonna get hit by the next pitcher.

My immediate response to the incident (was watching live) was 'Not the venue Carl!!!' Full disclosure, I've been a Carl Edwards fan since I saw him race on the Mid-Missouri tracks in the early 90's. I immediately lost a lot of confidence in Carl's judgement.

It would have been better if he would have waited for Bristol or New Hampshire to take this punk out. Problem is if it would have been Bristol he would have wrecked a bunch of other guys. New Hampshire would have been a better time, the track tends to be more clear at times.

This punk Keselowski has had this coming for a long time. He doesn't understand give and take racing especially early in a race. He sticks his nose in when he has no hope of pulling off a pass at the time, he's brash, and doesn't have much respect in a sport where respect means everything. This is not short track dirt racing where you have to root out people within 15-25 laps in order to win.

Now to get to the root of the problem bothering casual fans. Keselowski's car went airborne and crashed horribly. This is NASCAR's fault. Before the current car with the wing he would have -maybe hit the wall- and spun into the infield. The maneuver Carl put on him should have sent him harmlessly spinning into the infield and ruined the day Keselowski had already ruined for Carl and Joey Logano. Carl's intent was old school retribution. No different than what Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt Sr., Darrel Waltrip, Rusty Wallace or even Jeff Burton have done in the past.

The result of this incident was terrible looking. Consider how NASCAR handled it. It was a silent indictment of how Keselowski drives. I figured Carl would be put on probation for the rest of the year, maybe be pulled out of the car for a race. Regardless of popular opinion Keselowski (and Penske) was quietly slapped in the face to get his stuff together if he wants to continue to compete at the top level. I read about a 'prominent' driver that said if the car hadn't gone airborne the only slaps on pit lane would have been high fives on Carl for putting Keselowski in his place.

That's racing. Anyone that suggests it was attempted murder or assault doesn't understand the sport and would be hard to convince even after intensive therapy at various tracks.

[twila]

This incident was no different than retaliation in baseball. Some guy slams multiple home runs off a pitcher, or styles after one, he's gonna get hit by the next pitcher.



He may have just wanted to retaliate with good cause, but he chose a poor weapon endangering the lives of others as well as his target.

[DLD]

This incident was no different than retaliation in baseball. Some guy slams multiple home runs off a pitcher, or styles after one, he's gonna get hit by the next pitcher.

My immediate response to the incident (was watching live) was 'Not the venue Carl!!!' Full disclosure, I've been a Carl Edwards fan since I saw him race on the Mid-Missouri tracks in the early 90's. I immediately lost a lot of confidence in Carl's judgement.

It would have been better if he would have waited for Bristol or New Hampshire to take this punk out. Problem is if it would have been Bristol he would have wrecked a bunch of other guys. New Hampshire would have been a better time, the track tends to be more clear at times.

This punk Keselowski has had this coming for a long time. He doesn't understand give and take racing especially early in a race. He sticks his nose in when he has no hope of pulling off a pass at the time, he's brash, and doesn't have much respect in a sport where respect means everything. This is not short track dirt racing where you have to root out people within 15-25 laps in order to win.

Now to get to the root of the problem bothering casual fans. Keselowski's car went airborne and crashed horribly. This is NASCAR's fault. Before the current car with the wing he would have -maybe hit the wall- and spun into the infield. The maneuver Carl put on him should have sent him harmlessly spinning into the infield and ruined the day Keselowski had already ruined for Carl and Joey Logano. Carl's intent was old school retribution. No different than what Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt Sr., Darrel Waltrip, Rusty Wallace or even Jeff Burton have done in the past.

The result of this incident was terrible looking. Consider how NASCAR handled it. It was a silent indictment of how Keselowski drives. I figured Carl would be put on probation for the rest of the year, maybe be pulled out of the car for a race. Regardless of popular opinion Keselowski (and Penske) was quietly slapped in the face to get his stuff together if he wants to continue to compete at the top level. I read about a 'prominent' driver that said if the car hadn't gone airborne the only slaps on pit lane would have been high fives on Carl for putting Keselowski in his place.

That's racing. Anyone that suggests it was attempted murder or assault doesn't understand the sport and would be hard to convince even after intensive therapy at various tracks.

BTW, if you think a relatively spectacular crash like that is harmful to the driver (other than the potential G-loads) I would suggest you wrap yourself in 4 or 5 layers of bubble wrap and leap off the bottom step of your porch or deck or whatever. That's how safe these cars are now.

He may have just wanted to retaliate with good cause, but he chose a poor weapon endangering the lives of others as well as his target.

That is the game the drivers choose to play. The thin crowd sitting close to the track understand that they are 'at risk'. If they don't they are fools.
If you watched the race you would have seen there were no other competitors close at the time Carl took him out. Carl had nothing to lose at the time as far as points, but a lot to gain by putting someone in their place.

Like I said, I wasn't happy about where and when Carl did this to Brad, but I understand it. But it's part of the sport.

[Christopher]

If this crash was not dangerous for the driver, then what good is it to cause a hot-head to crash? It seems the only outcome from that would be dismembered fans.

I can see how what you're saying parallels to other sports. If you have a guy who never sets a pick for you on the court, maybe you fail to warn him that he is about to discover the power forward of the other team set a pick that is going to set his a$$ back a couple years. Or like in that movie where the defense let the QB get plowed a few times because he got cocky. However, I don't see a parallel with this and auto racing. It would be the same as shooting your opponent in the leg and saying "it's just a flesh wound" when shooting competitively. This Edwards guy didn't even slow down once he got the other guy broke free. That's just wrong.

[XXX]

i like it i like it. i may start watching racing again now.

[twila]

BTW, if you think a relatively spectacular crash like that is harmful to the driver (other than the potential G-loads) I would suggest you wrap yourself in 4 or 5 layers of bubble wrap and leap off the bottom step of your porch or deck or whatever. That's how safe these cars are now.



That is the game the drivers choose to play. The thin crowd sitting close to the track understand that they are 'at risk'. If they don't they are fools.
If you watched the race you would have seen there were no other competitors close at the time Carl took him out. Carl had nothing to lose at the time as far as points, but a lot to gain by putting someone in their place.

Like I said, I wasn't happy about where and when Carl did this to Brad, but I understand it. But it's part of the sport.


YouTube- Brad Keselowski Huge Airborne Crash at Atlanta 2010 NASCAR Sprint Cup Kobalt Tools 500

[DLD]

If this crash was not dangerous for the driver, then what good is it to cause a hot-head to crash? It seems the only outcome from that would be dismembered fans.
...
However, I don't see a parallel with this and auto racing. It would be the same as shooting your opponent in the leg and saying "it's just a flesh wound" when shooting competitively. This Edwards guy didn't even slow down once he got the other guy broke free. That's just wrong.

I understand that you don't get it. I don't get fighting in hockey. It seems almost predictable and staged to me. What's the point? I'm not a hockey fan, wasn't brought up on it and don't understand why fighting is traditional and important in the broad scheme of things.

In your original post you asked for a NASCAR fan to clue you in. NASCAR racing has been watered down in the past several years trying to put on a more 'corporate friendly' face. That's one of the reasons the sport has become more boring. NASCAR didn't put up with any rough driving (unlike the past), or physical confrontations on or off the track (unlike the past). Heck they fined Dale Jr. and took points for him for dropping a S-bomb in a live interview after a wreck.
Now they have opened it up a bit, this was the first test. As I noted before I think Carl did this at the wrong place and the wrong time.

Keselowski ruined Carl's day early so Carl went out to ruin BKs top 10 run. Ironically if Carl had waited to confront BK in the garage after the race I'm pretty sure Carl could/would have injured him more than what actually happened on the track.

This ain't tennis or golf, it's a brawny sport contested by people that have grown up into it, who understand it's dangerous. I'm an old school auto racing fan. I've seen countless drivers killed and maimed everywhere from Formula 1 to the local dirt track hero. Maybe I'm jaded. :confused: I think the reaction to this is way overblown.

[twila]

I understand your point of view since this type of thing is what the sport was built on. Interest in it, the fan base and TV viewing has declined since it has become big business with large corporations behind it and stricter rules have been put into place along the way. The cars through inovation have become faster and safer and the drivers very skilled but in the process the rough and tumble and dangerous aspect of it has lessened so it's not as exciting to watch. Too predictable. Many, I believe, watch and attend hoping there will be wrecks otherwise it's just becomes boring to simply watch cars going around and around the track over and over again. It's not simply an appreciation of the driver's skill involved and/or the design of the car's features, it's the violence sort of like watching a boxing match waiting for the knock out punch.
Maybe relaxing the rules and allowing more aggressive behavior will bring more thrills and increase the fan base. At least until someone gets killed in the process, but who knows for sure.

[DLD]

It would be the same as shooting your opponent in the leg and saying "it's just a flesh wound" when shooting competitively.

Bad example dude. I'm married to an international BB-Gun champion shooter and friends with an Olympic qualifier pistol shooter. First and last thought in their competition is gun safety always.

Not so with auto racing. The goal is to get to the front first, safety is not in the front of their brain. Maybe that makes the average race car driver kind of a dolt in some peoples eyes, but it's what they do.

Compare it to boxing. Seems senseless sometimes but lots of people enjoy it.

[travelinman]

I'm with DLD on this one. I'm not a race fan but I can see the points that he makes are valid. And I agree with Twila, a good many of the fans, IMO, are hoping to see just that type of action.

[Christopher]

Bad example dude. I'm married to an international BB-Gun champion shooter and friends with an Olympic qualifier pistol shooter. First and last thought in their competition is gun safety always.

Not so with auto racing. The goal is to get to the front first, safety is not in the front of their brain. Maybe that makes the average race car driver kind of a dolt in some peoples eyes, but it's what they do.

Compare it to boxing. Seems senseless sometimes but lots of people enjoy it.

Hey, you did answer the question, Mr. NASCAR! Thanks. If the sport is rough and tumble, that's fine.

As compared to boxing, though, rabbit punches aren't allowed. Neither are elbows, knees, kicks, etc. What happened after that Korean died in the Olympics? Yep, changes. Boxing has rules, rules meant to insure all competitors fight fair and live to tell about it!

[XXX]

"No, he didn't slam into you, he didn’t bump you, he didn't nudge you. He rubbed you. And rubbin', son, is racin'."